00:00:02

Speaker A- Nat: So just gonna preload this podcast with the amazing Sabrina that probably am gonna cry. So I think it’s that I’m the crier of the mental health series. I already feel. I already feel emotional about to talk to you. I just didn’t tell you that. Oh, I know. Oh, my God.

00:00:19

Speaker B- Sabrina: We’re only.

00:00:20

Speaker A- Nat: Not even one minute I’m crying.

00:00:21

Speaker B- Sabrina: Joe.

00:00:24

Speaker A- Nat: Sabrina.

00:00:24

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yes.

00:00:25

Speaker A- Nat: I love to kick off the podcast with. And you can’t. The answer can’t be because you told me I had to now. But when I said you have done a mental health podcast, what made you say yes? Why did you want to come on it?

00:00:41

Speaker B- Sabrina: I think for me, because it’s just.

00:00:43

Speaker A- Nat: It’s.

00:00:44

Speaker B- Sabrina: It’s so important and I. I really believe that. Which is why obviously you’re probably doing this is that it’s not spoken about probably enough.

00:00:53

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:00:55

Speaker B- Sabrina: And honestly, like, the amount of people just in. Through obviously the work that I do that I meet that are borderline burnout, not looking after themselves, have gone through a lot of stuff. And also from. From my journey as well. If there hadn’t been someone to be able to go and. And bounce your, you know, your feelings off of and all that kind of stuff, I just don’t think that.

00:01:20

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:01:20

Speaker B- Sabrina: That I probably would have be where I am.

00:01:23

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:01:23

Speaker B- Sabrina: Going through that journey. So, yeah. For me to be able to also voice that it’s. That it’s okay to not feel okay sometimes and it’s okay to not know where things are going and it’s okay to need to take a break, because I don’t. I think in this current market, especially with the economy the way that it is, people are just driving themselves pretty much really hard and potentially into the ground, and people just need to stop and just take a breath. So that’s what. When you were saying you were doing this, I was just like, yeah, it has an absolute alignment to what obviously you do. But also from what I’m seeing from a business perspective and the clients that we work with. But. But also from my own journey of just going, yes, it’s so important to get out there and for people to hear that we’re all in different stages and different phases. If you are on that journey and just to know that, yeah, it’s, It’s. It’s okay.

00:02:20

Speaker A- Nat: I think that’s one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is your journey for me, being really interesting. And I’m not going to choke up, but I think I always choke up every time I say this to you in front of the room with the other clients is your resilience over the last probably three years. It’s just. It’s. It’s astounded me. Like, I’m so astounded by your resilience. But here’s why I think you have this resilience, is you’ve had more than. And I covered something really important before that, mental health. And that’s why I wanted to do this. It’s not. We’re not talking burnout. We’re talking like these. Beyond burnout is when shit’s got suddenly real.

00:02:58

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:02:58

Speaker A- Nat: And I think what I really wanted for you to share with today is, is that mental health journey for you, because I think it’s been the power of you having that has been the reason why you’ve stayed in the game. Like, it’s actually been your superpower, because you’re like, fuck, I’ve been in worse places than this. I’m still here. And you just keep coming back. And you’re such a fighter. Such a fighter.

00:03:30

Speaker B- Sabrina: Thanks.

00:03:31

Speaker A- Nat: Aw, stop feeling all the love. I wanted to see that from an external perspective of online. Like, girl, it’s just, you know, I get to be part of people’s businesses and you’re so resilient that I think because you’ve had to cope with more than just a little bit of burnout. Do you know what I mean?

00:03:53

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. Is it called resilience or is it stubbornness, not leaving? I don’t know. But, yeah, it’s some. Yeah, it’s. It’s interesting. Hey, because I’ve definitely. It’s funny when people say to me, oh, like, I think I’m. I’m burning out or I’m getting to that stage. I’m 100% in that category of highly functioning burnout person.

00:04:11

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:04:11

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah, I totally know. I’ve been there and I totally know that I didn’t do anything about it and I just kept going and I. I don’t know where that’s. That comes from. It’s quite interesting. But I’ve got an absolute tenacity of just not giving up. And if someone tells me I can’t go do something, trust me, I’m going to prove you wrong. And I think that has been a detriment to my health in fights, but also they just. Yeah, just that absolute tenacity of just not. Not stopping now. Yes. That’s not good for some people. And. Yeah. Yeah, it’s kind of forgetting where I was kind of going with that kind of conversation. But just. Yeah, just. I was an absolute Highly functioning burnout leader, business owner, as well as all the. The stuff that also you deal with if you’re a, you know, if you’re a mom, if you’ve got children. We’ve gone through a real journey with my youngest, who I very openly talk about with his ADHD journey and just all of that in itself and having that ability to go, okay, we’re. Okay, we just need to get through to this next phase. Okay, we’re now at that next phase. We now need to get to the next one situation. And just. I’ve learned a lot through that journey of really listening to myself and listening to when those triggers come up.

00:05:38

Speaker A- Nat: You do want to tell us some of those triggers, like, for you. Because I. There’s been a few times in the past few years we’ve spoken, and you’ve been quite down.

00:05:46

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. And. But.

00:05:48

Speaker A- Nat: But you were so, like, great about it. You’re like, you already know what to do. I’ll just go talk to the doctor and get some more medication. So I really want to open that conversation to that part of the story. And I know that’s a really vulnerable thing to ask, but I think it’s so important that people don’t wait until. Or they don’t think this is what it is.

00:06:05

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:06:06

Speaker A- Nat: Like, yeah.

00:06:07

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. I think my. So from. From my personal journey was definitely. I think my. My mental health really took a hit when I was first pregnant with my. My eldest. And I. I love being pregnant, but, boy, my body did not. And it really had an effect. And I was probably. I probably would have been cast as having postnatal depression after I had my first child. Yeah. But I definitely was after having Karen, which is my youngest. And it was at that stage, I was just like, I need help. I was having, like, panic attacks and just not my usual self. Like, not opening the jam jar was an issue. You know, like, it was that. Those kind of small triggers. And so for me, it was definitely getting on to the, you know, the medication, getting on to, like, you know, antidepressants, making sure that the mix was right. And what a lot of people, I think don’t kind of take into consideration is actually your husband’s gets impacted in that as well. So for what I was going through had an absolute ripple effect onto, you know, like, my husband and the people that are around me as well. And so then that meant that then they came on that journey with you. Right. So it’s really interesting how that kind of. Yeah. Has that kind of ripple effect of. Of the other People that are surrounding you. And then I think I was probably a good, probably two years of being on the medication, you know, just, you know, getting through it. And I just kind of want, I don’t want to be taking these anymore. Surely I need to get, I want to get back control kind of situation. And that’s when I started looking more at the options that were available from that kind of more herbal standpoint and really understanding what my body needed. I’m definitely, I’m not necessarily into woo, but kinesiology for me is just been an absolute game changer. So that’s really when they are listening to what your body needs. So it might be either. It’s a bit, it’s a bit weird when you first go to a kinesiologist.

00:08:10

Speaker A- Nat: Science based, right, Kinesiology, yeah.

00:08:12

Speaker B- Sabrina: And they literally will kind of either lay you down or sit you down and they’re putting vols on you that are different kind of either, you know, vitamins or food elements that you need. And literally your body is going, yep, I need that. No I don’t. And so I first went to one when I was pregnant with Connor because I literally couldn’t keep anything down. And they were. And I was in another hospital getting my IV drips and getting my, you know, my levels back up. And I literally went to like, please help me because I can’t eat. And she was just like, right, don’t eat white potatoes, eat red potatoes. Like, and it was like silly changes like that that she made. And it immediately changed that I was able to, to kind of maintain a kind of, you know, some sort of element of eating while I was pregnant with Connor. And so for me, I literally went back to one when I was going through that with Kieran and obviously after having my youngest and then she went like, I just don’t want to be on the meds as such. But I know that I need something because my body’s taking a bit of a hit and so, and so is my mind. So, so what do I need to kind of have. And that’s when I was more looking at the. Yeah, the herbal supplements and what was actually my body needing versus here’s a pill from the doctor kind of situation. Because that’s what they give everybody and there’s a, there’s an element for that. It definitely helped in that kind of short term. But knowing now that my body needs something long term and having that because it’s been, it’s been broken through being pregnant and now especially through running a business and the stress that comes in from that. And then going through journeys as you do with your children, and all the. All the craziness that they throw at you. There was definitely moments where I was like, okay, actually, I’m going to need this in different stages. And I’ve definitely jumped in and out of it when I’ve needed it.

00:09:56

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah, that’s good.

00:09:58

Speaker B- Sabrina: But, yeah, it’s definitely listening to my body more. So, like, if I don’t sleep properly, if I don’t eat properly, if I don’t give myself space in my calendar enough, and I’ve got too much of a rushed schedule, I can feel myself kind of getting that it’s. I kind of close it as my husband. I’m getting a bit scratchy, and he’s just like, yeah, you’re getting a little bit. You’re responding a little bit too quickly or being a bit snappy. And that’s nothing to do with your time of the month. You’re getting a bit scratchy. And so that’s why I go, oh, okay. I’m. I’m. I’m not. I’m not prioritizing my health or my mental health, and I need to just stop and just take a break.

00:10:38

Speaker A- Nat: Super helpful. When someone go. When someone knows your triggers more than you.

00:10:43

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yes. Or.

00:10:44

Speaker A- Nat: Or if they say it, you’ll go do something about it. Like your husband. Like, I think it takes a lot for partners to go, hey, yeah, there’s this going on.

00:10:53

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And look, for me, like, Sean has just been such a rock in that. And seeing it, because you don’t see it yourself, you just keep going and you’re just like, oh, I’ve just, you know, I’ve had a bad night’s sleep, or I’ll be fine. Just, you know, another coffee and I’ll be great. Yeah. You know, and it’s. It’s not always the case, so I think it’s understanding those trigger points. And again, as I said, just being okay to not be okay some days and not push yourself in those situations.

00:11:21

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:11:21

Speaker B- Sabrina: Because, yeah, I’ve definitely sat in front of the screen and just gone. For the love of God, Sabrina, do something like, because of. Literally, it’s kind of like writer’s block. You just get that absolute. Nothing’s connecting, nothing’s wanting to talk. And then I’m just like, okay, I’ve just gotta. I’ve got to get away from this. I’ve either got to go for a walk or I’ve just gotta, you know, go and sit and read a book. Or go binge, watch the next Netflix series or whatever that’s going to be, and just be okay with that and not beat yourself up about it? Because I’ve definitely had those. When I’m like, I should be working. This is the set hours I’ve got while the kids are at school. You know, why am I not being super productive and moving that needle and getting that next sale and putting that post up or whatever it is? And now I’m like, no, I. I need a moment. I need to just stop and be very aware of that.

00:12:11

Speaker A- Nat: So, yeah, and I thinking about that with kind of, for you, that mental health piece coming through with postnatal depression. Do you reckon there was elements of that before you were pregnant? Like, do you think it’s. It’s a hormonal thing for you that triggered it? Or do you think there were. Know, as we’re older ladies and midlife, we can go, oh, actually there’s elements of that earlier, before I got pregnant.

00:12:37

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, I was always quite career driven. Very much a perfectionist pretty much.

00:12:43

Speaker A- Nat: No.

00:12:43

Speaker B- Sabrina: And now, anyway, that hasn’t really changed. So, yeah, I was always very kind of career driven and I think from being pregnant and it’s. It’s really interesting because I just. Especially with Connor, because I was so sick, I just couldn’t work. I had to stop. And I was on such an interesting trajectory of where I was going with my kind of, you know, job, job, career, that it was a real kind of like, stop. Like you’ve got to stop because your body is not coping with. I was just. Yeah, I was just so ill and so I just had to quit. I had to stop working. And that’s a really interesting. It’s like putting on the emergency brakes. It was a really interesting mental mindset to go through, as well as physical and everything else that was kind of happening for me, especially when career has been my real, I suppose my element of achievement.

00:13:36

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah, it’s your major. Just succeed.

00:13:37

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. 100%. So for me to then go, I’ve got to stop that. Okay. Now and again you go through it first. Go, who am I now then? Because I’m just. I’m just Mom. No. Okay. And yeah, interesting that then, you know, heavily pregnant with Connor in the kind of the last stage of the pregnancy is when good Lyme started. I was helping a friend. So interesting that even then I couldn’t. I didn’t want to let go. And I think there’s an element where you just have to let Go. And. Yeah, it’s taken me a while to kind of learn that element of just stop, Sabrina, and just take. And just take a moment.

00:14:17

Speaker A- Nat: What about through your business after the boys and you’re, you know, building this business? There’s been a time where you should have stopped and you didn’t.

00:14:27

Speaker B- Sabrina: Oh, is there been a time I should have stopped and I didn’t like.

00:14:32

Speaker A- Nat: And it could be in hindsight, you know how. Yeah, I should have stopped and this. This happened. And if I had stopped, maybe this.

00:14:41

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah, See, this is what. I find it quite interesting because I think I’m still on my. My kind of mental health journey.

00:14:47

Speaker A- Nat: Okay, good point.

00:14:48

Speaker B- Sabrina: And so I don’t sometimes pick up those probably triggers like, I should have. Is there a point where I should.

00:14:56

Speaker A- Nat: Have stopped and not even like, stop the business, but go. Actually, if you realized earlier that things weren’t quite right or you were down or something was happening, that if you had pulled the emergency brake earlier instead of pushing through. Because I do attract those type of clients because I’m like, that we all push through instead of going, actually, I’m going to pause and then come back.

00:15:19

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah, probably when we were in same growth phase. Yeah. So it was interesting. Covid for us, that nasty C word, the other C word. Yeah, Covid for us as a business was really a positive thing.

00:15:36

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:15:37

Speaker B- Sabrina: I kind of hate saying that because I know it caused so much, you know, issues for a lot of people, but it really took away that. That message that you couldn’t work from home and be productive. And that just instantly was. Was dissolved. So over that time, the business just went on a massive trajectory. And I probably, at that stage, in hindsight, should have gone, okay, let’s just take a moment and where is this going? And. And instead of just running with it, should have just actually probably taken a breath. Because I think through that, the team grew massively. I went from, like, having, say, like five people up to, like 15. And that in itself, like, I think the rule is you should not be managing more than, like, five people. Well, I was doing 15 of them, like, and that in itself was a massive undertaking while still having two pretty young children at the time. And we just come through that Covid phase and just all of that kind of craziness that everyone is experiencing. So. But at the time, I was like, no, this is. This is a good thing. This is why the business needs to go. This is where I should be going. And I never question that. And I probably should have. I probably gone, actually. Should. Should I be doing. Is this a, is this a healthy trajectory that I’m now on? So I think that pretty much took me to that burnout phase because it was literally like hell for leather going, going like y. Thunderbirds were definitely like, it was just, it was crazy times. And I probably should have actually just put the pause button on for a minute and just review that. But again, you don’t. When you’re running a business, you kind of go, sales are coming in. This is great. You don’t want to work with me. Why would I say no to this? And there’s that definite fear of going, oh, wait a minute. I just need to, I just need to review this. And I was just saying yes to everything that I probably shouldn’t have.

00:17:28

Speaker A- Nat: I think it’s more common than we think. And I think because you had that growth in the middle of the C word.

00:17:34

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yes.

00:17:35

Speaker A- Nat: Which makes the other C word not so bad.

00:17:37

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:17:38

Speaker A- Nat: You know, it’s kudos to you because, you know, not only were you going, I mean, speed wobbles and growth are a big deal anyway, let alone sandwiching in between those Covid times. Like you said, two small kids at home and probably husband who is working from home. And you’ve got to try and do all the things.

00:17:53

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:17:54

Speaker A- Nat: Like I don’t. I meet many people who did not not hit burnout and be changed from that time.

00:18:01

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:18:01

Speaker A- Nat: And I do remember you actually questioning some stuff around that time of, you know, your own leadership style and you’re really great at the self reflection of, oh, this is how everyone else seems to be doing it.

00:18:16

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:18:16

Speaker A- Nat: But actually I don’t need to also do it that way. I can do it in my Sabrina way.

00:18:21

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. But that, I mean that in itself also took a journey to do because you do naturally go, well, everyone else is doing it this way and it’s working for them. So surely that’s the path I should go down.

00:18:31

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:18:31

Speaker B- Sabrina: And that’s what I was doing. I was literally following what everyone else in that, in my industry in that kind of thing was doing. Okay, this is what you have to do. Okay. This is. You have to go get an office now. Oh, okay. You have to now be putting this on for all of your team. And, and it just, I should have felt the feelings of going, this doesn’t feel right.

00:18:50

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:18:52

Speaker B- Sabrina: And, and now like I, I am not one of those people that kind of micromanages my team. I don’t, I’m not on them 24 7. They are amazing at what they do. And you know I leave them the fuck alone to go do what they need to go do kind of situation.

00:19:08

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:19:09

Speaker B- Sabrina: And. And that’s the kind of the business that we now have. But at the time I was definitely trying to push. Yes. Square pegs into round holes and wondering why it wouldn’t fit and then getting frustrated, thinking that it was my style that was the issue. And then looking internally going, oh, it’s me that’s the problem. I, I need to become this, Become this person, become this business owner, become this leader. That just didn’t feel right. And I was like. And then it. Yeah, it took probably a lot of our sessions to kind of go, why are we doing this again? And just. Yeah, it’s amazing when you stop and just go, why? And. And then you don’t have any evidence to back just go, oh, yeah. I, I don’t know why I’m doing that.

00:19:53

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah. Why.

00:19:54

Speaker B- Sabrina: Why am I now on this path or why am I on this train? And then why am I exhausted all the time and not feeling myself? So, yeah, it, it, it definitely took a while to get there, that’s for sure.

00:20:04

Speaker A- Nat: But you’ve got there, which is so good because I think that’s the thing of like, as we head into.

00:20:09

Speaker B- Sabrina: I’m.

00:20:10

Speaker A- Nat: I think I’m quite a bit older than you. How.

00:20:16

Speaker B- Sabrina: Are you? I’m going to be 46 next year. 45 this year.

00:20:21

Speaker A- Nat: Okay. So I’m not that much. So I’m 40, so 48. And for me, perimenopause bought. Brought up for me some of my old.

00:20:31

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:20:32

Speaker A- Nat: Hormone dysfunction. Because in, in hindsight, after I had Molly, I actually was suffering from protein or depression, but we didn’t know.

00:20:43

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:20:43

Speaker A- Nat: Because I’m so highly functioning.

00:20:45

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:20:45

Speaker A- Nat: Such a chronically annoying person. Like that is. It’s not, it’s what, back in 10 years later, I go, oh, yeah, right. And so for me, coming into perimenopause and the hormones changing.

00:20:57

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:20:58

Speaker A- Nat: For me that, that triggered a whole lot of stuff. So I think for me being aware of that and as going into perimenopause, just sharing with many people, I can. Hey, shit. If you did suffer postnatally.

00:21:10

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:21:11

Speaker A- Nat: Bark and look out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don’t know for you, has, has that started to happen? How are you managing that? Are you. Do you need to like, what is that for you?

00:21:26

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah, I think I’m probably on the, on the pre. Kind of cursor of that. I think I’m probably coming into it. I’m definitely getting like the brain fog I definitely, like, it’s really interesting. I used to be able to work like into the night. I was definitely in my hour for working. I was not a person at all. And it’s completely switched. Like come seven o’ clock you’re not getting any, any good work or information out of me because my brain is done. But I will wake up at four or five o’ clock in the morning and I’m like, let’s go. So it’s really interesting how that has shifted.

00:22:03

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:22:04

Speaker B- Sabrina: And again it’s understanding that now that’s my, that’s my jam. That’s where I’m actually the best kind of version of myself is in that morning pace.

00:22:14

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:22:15

Speaker B- Sabrina: And restructuring my, my day accordingly. You know, like there’ll be times around like, you know, I’m picking up kids at 3 o’ clock, there’ll be times I’ll be sitting on the sofa with them at three and then I’m like nodding off and I’m like, oh my God, my mom used to do this. And I understand why, but it’s really interesting. I just. Oh, okay. I just needed that. I needed that little catnap, a little power up or booster to get through the rest of the, you know. Yeah. Kind of situation. But yeah, I don’t, I don’t think I’m in that full kind of menopausal state at the moment, but I’m definitely that kind of. Yeah, very. Menopause is kind of, I can, I can sense that it’s going to be coming my way pretty soon and I’m very aware of how I was after giving birth.

00:23:00

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:23:01

Speaker B- Sabrina: And going, okay, I need to be watching again and getting, you know, husband on high alert. You know, like watch for the, watch for the trigger point points and making sure that I’m looking after myself because especially now having, you know, I’ve got two boys that are, you know, that kind of tween age and they’re very, very receptive and very much little sponges. And so, you know, I’m very aware of not becoming that kind of, you know, grumpy mum or snappy kind of, you know, scratchy, scratchy parent and being able to support them. And that’s another thing like again from, from not to hop on about being a mum as such. But it’s really interesting you don’t look after your mental health from a, from your own perspective how much that actually affects your children as well.

00:23:46

Speaker A- Nat: Huge. A bit huge.

00:23:47

Speaker B- Sabrina: And the fact that again, I’ve got two boys, they are highly emotional at the moment and they are going through their own version of, you know, hormones changing and then becoming men and understanding what that means and where they fit into the world. And they’re super emotional. So I’m now being very aware that I need to be a pretty solid rock because I know that they’re going to need me and going to need me to be able to go, you know, what if you’re. And we’ve had it, we’ve had it with our eldest going, you know, he’s woken up and gone. I just really don’t want to go into work. I don’t want to go to work.

00:24:23

Speaker A- Nat: Oh, so you make your kids work.

00:24:26

Speaker B- Sabrina: I don’t want to go into school, you know, today and I’m just not feeling it and I’m like, it’s okay for you to take a breath and training him now and going, it’s okay to do that. Apart from no push through. You’ve got to go to school and it’s really important, otherwise you’re going to miss out. It’s like, it’s all right, hon, you can, you can take a breather, like in that being okay. Because I definitely think for, for my generation anyway, it was go, go, go. Like, don’t, don’t take your foot off the accelerator.

00:24:53

Speaker A- Nat: Well, I think that’s because I have how our parents were brought up, right. So, yeah, you never say to your mum or dad, oh, I don’t want to feel like it. They’ll be like, get your ass, get up and go.

00:25:03

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:25:03

Speaker A- Nat: You know, and I think that’s where we do have this generation of women now age, we do have that tendency where we’ll just carry on.

00:25:11

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:25:12

Speaker A- Nat: And as we know, that’s not. No, very. Not ideal.

00:25:15

Speaker B- Sabrina: No. And then you’re using coping mechanisms, you know, so you’re having a dinner. If you’re having a dinner at 1 o’ clock in the afternoon, and that’s probably a bit of energy. Although that was absolutely fine when it was Covid. But yeah, it’s. It’s kind of spotting those triggers where if, you know, yeah, you’re doing a little bit too much of stuff, that’s not. Not going to help you the next day. And it’s really interesting just on that kind of. Kind of. Zane is. I remember watching something that James Corden did where he was saying that he really stopped abusing his, his own body and his own schedule so much in a day because he was going, I don’t want to borrow any time from the next day. Oh, I love that what am I happy to borrow from the next day? Because what I’m doing now is going to have an effect on my, on my behavior the next. Be that staying out until, you know, midnight at a club or binge watching Netflix, which I sometimes do until like one in the morning. You know, it’s a case of going, actually I’ve got to stop this behavior because that is now going to be eating into what I’m going to be able to cope with tomorrow. And so it’s that kind of love. And that really for me was quite an interesting going. Oh yeah. Okay. I need to, I need to put some boundaries and hills.

00:26:26

Speaker A- Nat: I actually really love that. It’s made me think about and reflect on probably in the last two years, maybe three now. Let’s just say two for the first time ever, because I’m such a people pleaser that I love people that I will would have always put like the kids, partner, clients, parent. I would put everyone else first.

00:26:48

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:26:48

Speaker A- Nat: And for the first time, because, you know, I’ve had some health issues and. But also, you know, for, for my own mental health is I had to actually learn to put myself first. And that’s really weird and hard. Yeah. And just going back on the Jane’s thing is just, you know, I’ve said, because it used to be a joke like, oh, Nat would go to the opening of an envelope and it’s because it’s true. I would go to everything and everything because that’s just how I was coping with life. And for the first time in my life, and I want to use the word selfish even though I know it’s not been. But I’m just learning to go, no, I can’t go to that. No. Actually over the winter months, I’m actually going to be hibernating. Like I need to chill or. No, I’m actually prioritizing my own immediate family being me first, so being really selfish at the weekends where I just need my own time.

00:27:40

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:27:41

Speaker A- Nat: Time for my husband. Like putting back into our relationship and then actually having teenage children where they actually do need you a lot and then going, okay, what. Or are there any friends left? Because there’s not much time for them.

00:27:56

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:27:56

Speaker A- Nat: But actually being really conscious about it and going, oh my God, the first time in so long. I’m just actually really coming back and going back to myself. As much as it feels very foreign and it’s just, it’s revolutionary. I’m just like, I’m probably like a sloth now. But because it’s so Far from what I used to be. You know, like, if something. If my husband would come home on the couch, I’d leap up, I’d jump off the couch so he wouldn’t see and think that I was a lazy bit.

00:28:27

Speaker B- Sabrina: You’ve been lazy.

00:28:29

Speaker A- Nat: Sent to me. I want to come home and see you on the couch.

00:28:32

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:28:33

Speaker A- Nat: Because you need to fucking chill.

00:28:35

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. And that’s really interesting because that’s kind of bring it. Like, for me, I work from home. And so when I had, like, the little ones and I was working from home, for me, the house environment was a representation of where my mind was at.

00:28:49

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:28:49

Speaker B- Sabrina: Okay. And that’s how I looked at it. So, like, when. When Sean was coming in, I wanted everything to be perfect and clean and everything in its place and all sorted. And I would absolutely push myself to the limit of exhaustion, of making sure that that was what the day, like, what the house looked like. And he was like, I don’t care if I come in and there’s, like, toys over in the corner in the. There’s a pot over boiling or whatever. And. But for me, it was like, yeah, okay, but if you’re an office environment and your boss comes over to your desk and sees that there’s a empty coffee cup that’s been there for, like, you know, two. Two days, and your. Your jacket is strewn over the back of your. Your chair, like, kind of haphazardly, and there’s some empty, you know, shoes underneath your desk, and there’s paper everywhere. What do you think that’s going to present to your boss? And, like, Sean was just like, well, it’s going to show that I’m probably not in control. I was like, thank you. That’s. That’s where I’m looking at the house. And that was not the right mindset.

00:29:45

Speaker A- Nat: No, it’s that control. I Like, I’m in control.

00:29:47

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. And I think that actually when you were kind of saying, oh, if you look back and there’s an error where.

00:29:51

Speaker A- Nat: You should have stopped.

00:29:52

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah, that was probably one of the things as well, because I was just so focused on going. I have to present that I’m absolutely in control of this, and this is where I need to. You know, this is where I can need to be shutting up in that respect. And it just so wasn’t. Wasn’t dated and wasn’t the case. But that was the narrative that I had told myself, and that’s the narrative that I then was. Yeah. Putting out in the world.

00:30:18

Speaker A- Nat: It’s a really interesting thing that Control thing. Because that’s one of my triggers. If I’m trying to over control everything, like I’m playing a game of chessboard with everything.

00:30:26

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:30:26

Speaker A- Nat: Then I know that I’m heading to not a great place.

00:30:29

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:30:30

Speaker A- Nat: And you’re right. Sometimes when you. You’re not dealing with your own shit, whatever it is we could control, the only thing we can control, which, going back to you being at home, it’s those little things like, look, I’m in control. I’m fine. We’re actually underneath. You obviously weren’t.

00:30:46

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:30:46

Speaker A- Nat: Do you know what I mean? And then trying to prove to everyone, like, no, I’m fine. We’re actually going. I’m actually not okay.

00:30:52

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:30:52

Speaker A- Nat: And I’m gonna have a little cry about it.

00:30:54

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:30:54

Speaker A- Nat: And when someone asks, are you okay? You’re just gonna go, I’m actually not. I’m having a bit of a shit day.

00:31:00

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

00:31:00

Speaker A- Nat: But then also being okay when you are okay. Like, I actually am okay.

00:31:05

Speaker B- Sabrina: Thanks.

00:31:06

Speaker A- Nat: And everything is great.

00:31:07

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. And I think there’s definitely stages. I mean, I mean, that’s how we first met was. I was. I definitely came to you first for my mindset.

00:31:14

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:31:14

Speaker B- Sabrina: Because I was not in a good place at all.

00:31:16

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:31:17

Speaker B- Sabrina: And so for me to go through that journey of actually understanding what. What. What’s really important to you and what you value. And now that’s absolutely my kind of like horizon point. Like if that’s not going or if that’s not hitting those marks, I immediately get like an feeling.

00:31:36

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:31:36

Speaker B- Sabrina: And then I’m like now. And I start backing out where before I wouldn’t have. I would have pushed through and to my own detriment and set expectations on others, be that team members, clients, whatever, that they were never going to achieve. And then being really disappointed that they wouldn’t do that. And I’m like, well, wait a minute. And do I even tell them that that was where I wanted them to be?

00:32:01

Speaker A- Nat: And do you want to actually be here? Yeah.

00:32:03

Speaker B- Sabrina: And then getting really angry at myself about that and then just what is. What is going on? And so, yeah, we definitely went through a whole journey to kind of get through that. And yeah, that was just life. That was completely life changing. To be able to go right, that’s. That’s where I need to be in these environments. I do not need to be in. And so back out like immediately and just go, this is actually where I should be. This is where I flourish. This is where I’m absolutely being used to a point where it’s actually, you know, absolute detriment to my, to my own mental health and happiness. And I think it’s understanding those points and we all have them. We all have those either, you know, clients or work environments or circle of friends or family or whatever that just don’t fill up. They completely drain it.

00:32:56

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:32:57

Speaker B- Sabrina: And look, sometimes you can’t get rid of the family that do that. But I think it’s understanding. Oh, okay. So this is, this environment is going to drain me. Therefore I’m going to be very, I’m going to put a barrier up to make sure that I’m not giving them everything of me because I’m going to just, I’m not going to, I’m not going to be good. I’m not going to be good after this kind of interaction.

00:33:20

Speaker A- Nat: Important thing like just you don’t have to do something out of duty. Like you’re, you know, we’re adults and we can actually go. I actually don’t want to do that without. With you.

00:33:28

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:33:29

Speaker A- Nat: So. And you’re not going to or you know saying yeah, we can do that. But it’s going to be actually on my terms.

00:33:35

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:33:35

Speaker A- Nat: Which is really hard when you are that people pleaser. Get it done, come to me, we’ll work it out. It feels really foreign, doesn’t it?

00:33:43

Speaker B- Sabrina: Well, you feel like you’re letting people down.

00:33:45

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:33:46

Speaker B- Sabrina: Because that was what you were previously and then suddenly you change and then what’s happened to you, you’re a different person. And it’s like, yeah, I’ve got to put barriers in place. I’ve got to be looking after myself because again I’ve got children that are going to actually need me and they need me for their own mental health, you know, journey that they’re going through and, and they, you know, kind of. Yeah. Hormones and God knows what. So you have to be really, really strict with those, those barriers and be okay with saying no and be okay with going nap. Not, not this weekend. You know, I’m going to take some time.

00:34:17

Speaker A- Nat: And also interesting like speaking of barriers but like boundaries back for clients into our business. Like here’s the boundary. Yeah this and I’m going to set it so you know, we don’t go out of scope or over deliver or if a client messages and you don’t get back in time then it not making that like I’ve got to get back to that client because they messaged at this time at night, like getting that nervous system to be cool and go, it’s okay. I get back to them in business hours. You know what I mean?

00:34:46

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. 100. And. And it’s very easy.

00:34:48

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:34:49

Speaker B- Sabrina: Have those things start infiltrating your own personal time. And. And so, yes, setting those boundaries in place. And look, I definitely, again, didn’t do that. I was answering, you know, messenger messages with clients while also, you know, you know, sitting there, meant to be watching my son doing gymnastics or whatever or, you know, like, in having those elements overlap. But it’s so important for you to obviously be present with your children and not be distracted, which is hard to do in the current kind of climate. But. Yeah, but having those boundaries in place is really important.

00:35:26

Speaker A- Nat: I want to, you know, at the beginning, I talked about, sorry, this is a real podcast. We do coughs. We’re not editing out costs. At the start of the podcast, when I had had a little blub, because I think your journey is just on empowering how you’re like, what’s that? Arcade game? Whack a mole? My life’s been a second of moles that I’ve been smacking in the head. No, but you just. You just keep popping. You keep popping up. So I just want to come back to that. So you took us through what came through to coverage business, then took off then. I’d love for you to share the roller coaster we’ve been on to here we are today. Because I think it’s really empowering, but also it’s a real journey. And I know it’s not just been your business has gone through this, but others. And I think I think someone else would appreciate hearing it.

00:36:24

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah. So look, from a. From a business perspective, we’ve definitely had highs and lows, and there’s definitely been stages where I’ve just been, oh, my God, do I just have to go just, you know, go get a job. Job as such, and phases like that. Sorry. A big drink of water so I don’t cough like crazy. From a mindset perspective, I’ve definitely had to, in the nicest possible way, get over myself.

00:36:55

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:36:56

Speaker B- Sabrina: Because I definitely was taking everything at the start of my business journey, I was definitely taking everything personally. Like, that doesn’t want to work with us because it’s me. You know, it’s all to do with me. That person doesn’t want to work with me or be part of the team because of me. The business isn’t growing because of me. You know, like, and really taking everyone. People are leaving because of me kind of situation. Well, I’ve definitely gone through that phase of just actually going actually this is a. This is a business transaction. And. And it’s okay. People will come and go in your life and in your business, and they’re there for a reason for that, for that period. And then you move on or they move on, and that’s, again, totally fine. And it’s coming to terms with that, I guess, and understanding that that’s okay.

00:37:43

Speaker A- Nat: And that you’re not. Good line, Sabrina. Is a good line. And not being intertwined.

00:37:48

Speaker B- Sabrina: No, exactly. And just understanding that, you know, if. If the journey that I’ve been on with the business ends, you know, tomorrow, that’s also okay. Yeah. It served. It’s either a purpose or it served the reason of why it was there in the first place. And that the business that I have has enabled me to be there for my children. It has taught me a truckload.

00:38:12

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:38:13

Speaker B- Sabrina: Has made me meet some pretty amazing people and just really boost my confidence and. And that kind of tenacity and resilience piece, really. And so if nothing else, the business has done that. And that’s amazing. And if it, you know, if it has to be closed down or if it just isn’t the right time or it’s done its dash, then that’s also okay. And being comfortable with that. Where before I would have been absolutely hyperventilating and going, oh, my God, I failed. Because I definitely, from I think a young age, had a massive fear of failure. And so for me, like, something not working was, of course, a failure.

00:38:55

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:38:56

Speaker B- Sabrina: So that’s where I kind of. Yeah. Just wanting to. Yeah. Always, Always achieve. Which is just unrealistic. But again, that’s the perfectionist. If you set extremely high standards for yourself.

00:39:08

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:39:09

Speaker B- Sabrina: And then beat yourself up when you don’t get there, which, again, is not a good mindset to be in and definitely has a. Has an impact on your mental. Yeah.

00:39:17

Speaker A- Nat: But I think it’s just, you know, like, so many businesses go through the journeys that we’ve all gone through, whereas sometimes we’ll think, oh, no one else has gone through these trajectory. But actually, it’s weird if you don’t, you know, and, you know, a lot of the businesses, you know, coming through Covid and then being buoyant for a couple years and then the economy hit and then we’re on the down coast of the roller coaster.

00:39:43

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:39:43

Speaker A- Nat: Your ability to be extremely agile and. Okay, I’m gonna say the P word, Receiving the P words and pivot has been extraordinary.

00:39:54

Speaker B- Sabrina: Right.

00:39:54

Speaker A- Nat: And that’s where that resilience of the. That’s where the perfectionist A plus personality. All the stuff we often will.

00:40:04

Speaker B- Sabrina: Poo, poo.

00:40:04

Speaker A- Nat: That’s what’s kept you back in the game.

00:40:07

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:40:07

Speaker A- Nat: Is going okay. I have. I can do this. This is the time now for these. These to step in and take over.

00:40:15

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:40:16

Speaker A- Nat: And I think you’ve done that really well because there’s lots of businesses who would have gone, you know what, I’m done and I’m out. So you’re that. And I know we, we’ve come to that line. So close. So close.

00:40:26

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:40:27

Speaker A- Nat: And you’ve pulled it back every single time. So I don’t even want you to really, like, not really get that, like, businesses have tragedies, as we said, but it’s not that average that you’re still in the game. So I just. Kudos to you again for that. Oh, thanks. I know I said it every time I see you, but I just. Yeah, it’s massive. If anyone’s had reasons to be like, I’m gonna go, I’m out. You could have had them and you haven’t. And I’m just. That’s amazing.

00:40:54

Speaker B- Sabrina: And I think you’ve got it. I think the one thing that’s really soon, you say, because it’s one of those things that when you’re in the thick of it, you don’t. You don’t stop at that stage to think about those kind of things. You just. I don’t know. I just. I just do it. I just kind of go, okay, where are we at? Okay, it’s either going to go, we need to close tomorrow, or we’re going to go off and do this. Well, I don’t. I don’t feel like. And trusting my gut is a massive thing of going. I don’t. I don’t feel like it’s time yet. Like, I’m not feeling that that’s the road I need to go down with regards to, you know, like, shutting everything down or anything. So let’s go try this and see what happens.

00:41:29

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:41:30

Speaker B- Sabrina: And I think again, from going through the journey that I have with my youngest with, you know, all the different nuances that he’s been going through with his adhd, we have definitely thrown shit at walls and seen what stuff. And I think, again, that’s. And what’s worked for him and what hasn’t. And I think, again, that’s how I’ve looked at it from a. From a business perspective of going, okay, let’s just throw. Let’s throw some shit at some wall and see what actually sticks and what doesn’t and then understand that if it doesn’t, that’s okay. It probably wasn’t the right time or it wasn’t the right offer or it wasn’t the right package, or people aren’t ready for this yet. But. Okay, let’s just park that and maybe we can try that again. We’ll throw that again later. So. Yeah, I definitely. Yeah, I think, yeah. Again, going back to that resilience, is it stubbornness?

00:42:17

Speaker A- Nat: Stubborn to not.

00:42:18

Speaker B- Sabrina: To not give up and not kind of call it a day. And I’m definitely. I definitely. And again, they’re going back to that listening piece and definitely listening to my. To my own self to go, is this. Is this the right time? Has it done its dash? Have I. Do I need to move on? And when it. When it’s saying no, then I go, okay, I just need to change.

00:42:39

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:42:39

Speaker B- Sabrina: Markets changed, think people are changing. We just need to change. And so that’s when we, we look at those challenges that have, you know, come our way through. You know, either technology with AI coming into things and definitely changing what we do through to. Yeah. The economy and people just really watching what they’re spending and hence contractors coming in and helping them is not on their radar right now.

00:43:02

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:43:03

Speaker B- Sabrina: And they’re going, okay, so how can we adapt? How can we kind of change and. And, and yeah. Still be able to support the people that actually need us.

00:43:13

Speaker A- Nat: If you, if someone listening today. If someone was listening, there are people listening today. This is a really annoying. It’s a really annoying question, but what is the one thing that you want to talk to just in your mind’s eye? Think of. It doesn’t have to be a woman with. In business, but someone. A business owner who is struggling.

00:43:37

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah.

00:43:37

Speaker A- Nat: Where you know, whether it be depression, anxiety, panicking, they’re not feeling themselves. Like, what do you want them to hear today?

00:43:46

Speaker B- Sabrina: Oh, that’s such a. God. I can go into so many different ways.

00:43:50

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:43:52

Speaker B- Sabrina: I think from. From speaking from my own journey.

00:43:56

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:43:57

Speaker B- Sabrina: I think it’s just that piece of. Of trust your gut and trust your instincts. And if you’re sitting there and you’re going, okay, I’m either not getting sales calls or the business isn’t going the direction I wanted it to, or I’m just not feeling it anymore because trust me, I’ve been there where I’ve fallen out of love of what I do and had to fall back in love with it. Just literally, just take a moment and trust your. Your instincts of what is. Of why you started this in the first place and kind of go back to basics a bit. And that’s definitely what I’ve been doing over the last, well, since really November last year, has just gone back to basics and go, why did we do this in the first place? Why did I set this up? Why was I offering this service? Why was I passionate about it? What am I now passionate about? And kind of adapting in that way. So, yeah, just really, really trust yourself because you’re the only one that can drive it. And if your passion isn’t there and if your, your mental health isn’t in a good place to be able to do that, then that’s really what you need to be focusing on.

00:45:06

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah, that is that strategy. Oh, hello. Yeah, I think that’s a really good point about if you’re mentally not in a good space and you go to your inner self. So like that inner coach, and go, actually, what do I need? I’m actually tired. I actually do need time out. That, that is a strategy in itself.

00:45:25

Speaker B- Sabrina: Oh, 100. And look, as a, as a, as a business owner, you’re the one or as, you know, you’re the one that is driving the passion, you’re the one that’s driving everything forward. And so if you’re, if you’re running on empty, it’ not going to go very far.

00:45:43

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah, I really like how you’re talking about trusting your gut and you know, like, for me, that’s trusting your inner coach. And so if you are having a bad mental health time and you’re like, hey, I’m actually really tired and I need to stop that, that is actually a really, it’s a business strategy in itself, 100%.

00:46:01

Speaker B- Sabrina: And that’s where it’s really important for people to know that it’s okay to stop. It’s okay to have a moment and it’s okay to not feel it. Like, there’s, there’s some days where I’m, as I said, you know, fun, like looking at the screen going, come on, inspiration. Let’s get some stuff moving. Let’s get that needle moving. Let’s put that post up. I need to write something super inspirational for LinkedIn. And you’re just like going, yeah, the brain’s just like, nap. Sorry, we’re over here in, you know, fun fair land. Like, it’s like that kind of Homer Simpson. Like, it’s just not happening. And so I think you just have to kind of go, okay, I’m, I’ve pushed myself too far in other areas. My brain is not, you know, Connected. Go have a walk. Go take a break. Go, you know, take yourself out for coffee and cake or whatever it is that. That fuels you and fills you up. And I think it’s understanding what those things are and then come back to it because, yeah, just. Just running on empty and not listening to your. Your yourself and what your body is trying to tell you is just a fuel for disaster from what I’ve seen myself personally and what I’ve gone through, but also what other business owners that we work with is. Is still doing or they’re doing at the moment.

00:47:16

Speaker A- Nat: So, yeah, we could just chat all day.

00:47:18

Speaker B- Sabrina: I know that went really quickly. It’s really good. I held it together. No tears.

00:47:26

Speaker A- Nat: I’m not going to do these unpushing anymore. Like price. No, I think it’s because we’ve got such an established relationship and I’ve been part of your business journey for so long, I feel really connected to who you’ve become and the work that you put in because I say I see those things and actually from a coach perspective, by having the same triggers or the same responses, it’s actually really helpful because, you know, both. Sean, I can go, hey, about the thing you keep going to repeat, let’s not do that. So, yeah, sometimes it’s actually really good when people, we all do it, have repetitive behaviors because we can spot it so much faster and go, oh, let’s just do this instead.

00:48:06

Speaker B- Sabrina: Yeah, yeah.

00:48:08

Speaker A- Nat: So you can find out all about Sabrina Goodline and the business collective that she runs in the show notes. And you’ve been amazing. Thank you. I know that a lot of people are going to get so much out of hearing your journey and that they’re going to be picturing whack a moles when they think.

00:48:25

Speaker B- Sabrina: I know, I know. I feel like I need to go get one of those toys. I’m going to go to Kmart and see if they still sell them. But no, it’s been amazing. Thank you so much for having me. And I think what you’re doing is, yeah, is. Is really amazing. And look, everyone’s journey is so different. But I think the underlining element of we’ve just. Just got to be kind to ourselves, guys, and just, yeah, take. Take a moment and just stop and breathe and. Yeah, just. Yeah.

00:48:47

Speaker A- Nat: Have a nanny nap.

00:48:49

Speaker B- Sabrina: Have a nana nap. Yes. Are we going for one now?

00:48:51

Speaker A- Nat: Yeah.

00:48:54

Speaker B- Sabrina: Thanks, everyone.